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 Post subject: Inside Clonallon Church
PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:21 pm 
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Well, I finally got around to getting some photographs of the church, my thanks to the Rev Canon Jim Sims for giving me the guided tour :D


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Canon Sims at the main door.


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A quick history and list of rectors, vicars and curates from 1442 A.D. to 1923


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A quick backward shot to show the thickness of the walls around the porch, it is believed to have formed part of a Norman tower of an ancient building


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Map showing the various plots in the graveyard


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Inside the church


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views from the pulpit


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The stained glass window.


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One of the side windows, note the thickness of the walls. Interestingly, there are only 4 windows in the main church hall. the main stained glass one and another 2 of these on the southern facing side. One theory is that when that particular section of the church was built there was in force a "window tax" (during the 17th and 18th centuries) and, if they could only have 3 windows they put them all on the South facing side to maximise the light.



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One of the Pews with its door. I was never sure why the pews were fitted with doors, but I would imagine it was something to do with keeping the draughts out in winter?



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The font



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Inside the Bell tower



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the Belfry window



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Old grave markers



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close up of one of the markers, these are very heavy cast iron items, and I don't remember them being in use - I'd like to find out when they were last used.


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There is a photo of a choir dated 1812 in one of the back rooms, and also in the room was this picture (I hope to be able to get a copy of the choir picture later) This gentleman is also in the choir photo, and according to the list above he could be one of 3 people, John Davis, James Anderson or possibly William Hamilton Maxwell (a Scots/Irish Novelist according to some websites, more info on him here: http://www.maxwellsociety.com/Biography/Artists.htm (2nd article down)



Wall mounted Memorials:

The following are all the wall mounted plaques and memorials inside the church.



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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:26 pm 
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Cool. Never seen the inside of this church. Thanks for posting pics.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:28 pm 
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Thanks for getting out there and sharing the photos with us Brian, very interesting photos and information !


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:32 pm 
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Great stuff Brian, I love that wee church. There's just something about it :>


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 6:41 pm 
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Excellent Brian,even though I have been inside the church many times many thanks for giving us all the privilege of viewing the pictures of this historic church ...................................


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:14 pm 
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Lovely pics & info Brian. The Prysbeterian Church in Hilltown also has 'doors' at end of pews.
I was confused by the plaque to Eva Frances Millar ..organist and Church leader for over 40 years.... 1900 -1940.
Associated these 2 dates first of all to birth date & year of death,...but that wouldnt make sense!.......Its the years of her Church service obviously!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 7:53 pm 
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What a great set of pics Brian of a beautiful church, steeped in history. It's strange how you take something for granted when it's on your doorstep, though I often find myself looking at and admiring the stained glass window and was so pleased when it was restored a few years ago after vandals broke part of it. I have the privilege of reading in Clonallon Church fairly regularly and never fail to be struck by the beauty and indeed the simplicity of it.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:10 pm 
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Great pics Brian, and what a lovely wee Church, would love to have a proper look round it...and isnt Canon Jim Simms looking well, a lovely man who would never walk past without a 'hello' and a smile


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 10:11 pm 
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Gorgeous pics...... fantastic sense of history Brian...well done


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:12 pm 
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Brian

Many thanks - lovely place.

Jim


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 11:53 pm 
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John Davis and James Anderson are mentioned on Ros Davies site at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/PHOTOSwords/WarrenpointAll.htm "Church of Ireland, Warrenpoint. The parish church is situated at the south eastern end of Church Street, Warrenpoint town. It is a rectangular building of roughcast stone, ornamented with cut granite with a square tower. Its dimensions are 68 feet by 28 feet. It was built in 1826 at a cost of £900 which was defrayed by the Board of First Fruits. It was built on a site which was donated by Roger Hall of Mount Hall, Narrowwater, who owned Warrenpoint. A stone over the door has this inscription; " This chapel was endowed by the Rev. John Davis, 1825". The Rev. Davis also endowed it for a chaplain's salary of £50 per year to which the Board of First Fruits added £25 per year. The incumbent in 1836 was Rev. James Anderson, chaplain, with an income of £75 a year."

John Davis' residence (Clonallon House) is described at http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=_BSPnEpct_IC&pg=PA132&lpg=PA132&dq=%2B%22john+davis%22+%2Bclonallon&source=web&ots=250_SKRdgR&sig=2K3ADxdV_dbrprHnMeI3JMTf6Vo&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result#PPA133,M1 (PDF download available at http://books.google.co.uk/books/pdf/Ireland_Exhibited_to_England.pdf?id=_BSPnEpct_IC&output=pdf&sig=ACfU3U0IsQe044soQ2ux1KfzSBfpC6WzUQ)

James Anderson is mentioned at http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/SURNAMES/A/AndersonAJ.htm "born 1810, son of Rev. James Anderson ; chaplain Warrenpoint Church of Ireland in 1836, curate of Drumgath 1848-49 & of Clonvaraghan; died 6 Aug 1869 at Clonvaraghan; buried St. Patrick's Church of Ireland graveyard, Newry; left a will, executor was James Fegan of Newry"

And now to the puzzle. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_photography_technology the first photograph was produced in 1826.

Regards
Jim


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:06 am 
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Brian - lovely pictures of the Church. I thought the actual body of the Church would
be bigger. Never saw pews that had doors on them.
It is a beautiful Church inside and out.
The Church I belong to here has 10,000 members - the Church itself would hold 3-4,000 at one
time.
The only people I would know are the ones I would see on a regular basis.
That's the difference between small towns and big cities.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 12:26 am 
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Jim, the link you posted is for the parish church in Church Street Warrenpoint, not Clonallon - to save any confusion there are 2 Church of Ireland buildings, one in Church Street and the other about a mile and a half away at Clonallon. :D


Here are a few more pictures from the grounds at Clonallon.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:38 am 
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Brian, excellent work. Canon Sims was so gracious allowing all of us to see what a beautiful church this is.
As to the portrait, I believe this is Dr. Glenny. See this for an interesting little story and another photo of him.
http://www.loughornetimes.co.uk/content/view/13/29/


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:54 am 
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I can remember being told that Dr Glenny had a penny farthing bike.Is it possible that this is the same man who was pictured riding a penny farthing in The Square? ;--)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:56 am 
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Ah, the mystery is almost solved I think :D after getting a closer look at the photograph, the date on it is actually 1912, not 1812 (it was handwritten so hard to distinguish, but Jim reminding me about the dates made me go back and look again) so that fits into the time line, and I also found this picture


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 1:26 pm 
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and a (very) short bit of video footage.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F6a0enIfXo[/youtube]


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 4:51 pm 
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Brian wrote:
Jim, the link you posted is for the parish church in Church Street Warrenpoint, not Clonallon - to save any confusion there are 2 Church of Ireland buildings, one in Church Street and the other about a mile and a half away at Clonallon. :D


Hi Brian

Yes - I think the Warrenpoint one was established as a curacy (but I admit I'm not quite sure what that means ;)

Jim


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2008 9:58 pm 
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Wonderful pictures of a lovely & historic church. I've only been inside twice, both times at funerals, although I've wandered around the graveyard on many occasions.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:16 pm 
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Class video Brian, love that small church, been there many times also. :-):-) :-):-)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:12 am 
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It has been a few years since I had my video camera inside this wee church, I seem to remember someone telling me that years ago the wealthy families bought their own pews and had them installed in the churches with doors attached to keep the common folk out of their company, very christian like ? True or False ? Anyone ?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:41 am 
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False, but with a tiny pinch of the truth (as with all great Irish stories) :D I have no idea of the time scale, but I do know that in the Church of Ireland in Church Street, most of the pews are numbered, and as a child I was often told that pew number 19 (I think - it's a while since I attended :') ) was "our" pew. And sure enough, every week each family seemed to sit in the same places. (wealth and social status did not seem to come into it, and the front pews were always "reserved" for the family's at funerals or weddings)
In later years this practise seems to have faded, (with the exception of funerals and weddings) but I think some family's still sit in the same places, and the age old practise of "sitting at the back" is still as popular as ever :rotfl:
Clonallons pews are not numbered, and I was told the other day that keeping the draughts out was the most probable cause for the doors, but it could be open to interpretation.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:20 pm 
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Clonallons pews are not numbered, and I was told the other day that keeping the draughts out was the most probable cause for the doors, but it could be open to interpretation.


Bro.......if it was open to interpretation.......would that not let the draught in? :D :)) :rotfl:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:39 pm 
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I think its just like a habit ? People that go weekly seem to sit in same seat every week


I know in Kilkeel its the same and when you dont go every week you are heart scared in sitting in someones seat (not giving anything away )!!! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:34 am 
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A little bit more research turns up some interesting facts..... The following is an extract from an English heritage document I found.

Quote:
Benches and pews
The 16th century Reformation accelerated the tendency to fill churches with fixed seating for the laity. Benches had first been installed in parish churches in the late middle Ages, but, for much of the medieval period, only a few stone benches along the walls, and occasionally around the piers, had been provided for the elderly and infirm.

The Reformation’s emphasis on preaching and teaching – the ministry of the word – made seating for the congregation far more important. The pulpit and reading desk replaced the altar as the focal point of the church interior, with benches and pews arranged around the pulpit to ensure maximum visibility and audibility.

Features were introduced to increase comfort during long sermons in unheated churches, such as doors to exclude draughts and provide privacy, cushions, fabrics and even fireplaces for the private family pews of those who paid pew rents.

As the seating arrangement reflected the social hierarchy of a parish, competition for the best seats was fierce and could provoke discord. Locks added to pew doors safeguarded the claims of pew proprietors, and sextons were required to usher them to their seats, though clearly not quickly enough for Samuel and Elizabeth Pepys, parishioners of St Olave’s Church, Hart Street, in the City of London: ‘In the morning to church, where at the door of our pew I was fain to stay, because the sexton had not opened the door’


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:19 am 
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Hi Brian and everyone, having just come home from a visit to Clonallon to-day[Wednesday] i just had to sit down and have another look at this thread and i see[did not notice it before] that in the little sequence of photos of the grounds, in the 4th photo with just the little square stone is our family plot of three graves. Strange how now[since this photo was taken] just foward left of that plot is the grave of Karen Blyth my cousin Robert McCoy's daughter, so close to what were her great grandfather and great grandmother who would not have been alive when she was born. Sadly when i walk about this graveyard and see the graves of so many of my family and indeed people i went to school with i get just a little depressed and these words come to me,
Going home i am going home
There's nothing to hold me here
I caught a glimpse of that heavenly land
Thank God i am going home

But when i get home here i start to think of our next trip to see the grandchildren in Virginia USA and the old spirit soars again, ah well i suppose thats life.
Dpnaghaguy[Wim]


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:51 am 
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Hi Brian, Wonderful exposures of the old church. Brings back a mixture of memories and i always recall the inscription on a stone on top of a grave "Think of me as you pass by, as your are now so once was I, as I am now so you must be, therefore prepare to follow me" The inside appears to be in excellent condition and what I saw of the grounds looks good. It makes us all think.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:35 pm 
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Miller mentioned. Wonder would it be any relation to the Miller who lived in Dock St. ?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:29 pm 
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Looks like the same person................According to the 1901 census......... Frances Millar wife of William Millar, aged 48, 9 South Quay Warrenpoint

Millar Eva Nancy 21 Female Daughter Church of Ireland Co Down - Read and write - Not Married -
Millar Florence Emily 19 Female Daughter Church of Ireland Co Down - Read and write - Not Married -
Millar William 48 Male Head of Family Church of Ireland Co Tyrone Family Grocer Read and write - Married -
Millar William Nelson 20 Male Son Church of Ireland Co Down Shop Assistant Read and write - Not Married -
Millar Frances 48 Female Wife Church of Ireland (Co.Westmeath, on original census form )


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Just to bring this up to date, I was up today getting some pictures of the external renovations taking place and was able to get a photo of the war memorial taken :D


as the flag was there, I took two shots so the names can be read on both sides.

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