Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

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bornandbred
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Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#1 Post by bornandbred » Thu Dec 06, 2007 8:58 pm

The following is a transcript of the inaugural document of Warrenpoint INF. The initials after the names of the officials have no meaning for me-perhaps an INF member could explain them?


"St. Peter's Hall, Warrenpoint. 16th March 1902

The formal opening of this branch took place in above hall, on this date. The branch was opened by Bro A. McAleavey of the Father Matthew Branch, Rostrevor.

The following were initiated:

Wm. Campbell; James McCaughey; Luke Carr; Hugh Smith; Thos Hanna; John Murdock; Francis Carvill; Wm.Byrne; James Macrell; Wm. McAnulty; Terence O'Neill; Peter McGivern; George McAteer; Edward McGivern; John Carney; James Ruddy; Patrick O'Hagan; Michael O'Hagan; Terence McAnulty; James McGeown; Daniel McAnulty.

The following were appointed officers:-

Terence O'Neill C.R. William Campbell S.C.R.

Peter McGivern Treasurer George McAteer Secretary

Thomas Hanna S.W. Francis Carvill J.W.

Hugh Smith S.B. James McCaughey J.B.

Signed R Crawford Sec.

Bro John R. McKernan C.R."



Image

Back row: 1 & 2 unknown; 3-Peter Grant; 4 unknown; 5-Thomas McGivern; 6-Harry Smith 7-Hugh Carr
Middle row: 1 Frank Carvill; 2 & 3 unknown; 4-Thomas Hanna; 5 ??McAteer; 6,7,&8 unknown
Front row: 1 unknown; 2-Peter McGivern; 3 unknown; 4-Patrick McCaughey; 5 unknown 6-Richard Edgar & child Jimmy Edgar; 7- George McAteer

An early photo of the Heart of Erin branch, with some names. It would be reasonable to assume that there are some of the inaugural members in this pic also. Does anyone recognise them as ancestors?

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Warrenpoint Forsters Heart of Erin Branch

#2 Post by mcelaura » Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:11 pm

Everyone will recognise the names common to our locality. For family
that recognises fore bearers, such a great photo to have. The only help I
might be is that if members are not aware, Seamus Murphy's (Homer)
mother, Allie, was Edgar to her own name and Dickie McGuigan's mother
was her sister, also Edgar. Their family home had been round the front
shore. If the Edgar in this picture is their relation, either of these
branches of the family will be able to verify this.

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#3 Post by herecomestheCONGO » Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:35 pm

Number 3 middle row looks like a Caulfield..Thomas maybe..the man next to him looks like James(the general) Mc Caughey, with his hands on his brother Pats` shoulders..I have just viewed this picture, so I will return with more solid info soon.

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#4 Post by northbrook » Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:32 pm

[quote="bornandbred"]The following is a transcript of the inaugural document of Warrenpoint INF. The initials after the names of the officials have no meaning for me-perhaps an INF member could explain them?


The following were appointed officers:-

Terence O'Neill C.R. William Campbell S.C.R.

Peter McGivern Treasurer George McAteer Secretary

Thomas Hanna S.W. Francis Carvill J.W.

Hugh Smith S.B. James McCaughey J.B.

Signed R Crawford Sec.

Bro John R. McKernan C.R."





quote]
C.R. Chief Ranger
S.C.R. Sub Chief Ranger
S.W. Senior Woodward
J.W. Junior Woodward
S.B. Senior Beadle
J.B. Junior Beadle
The rest of the offices explain themselves
"The Irish National Foresters (Coillteoirí Náisiúnta na hÉireann in Irish) is an Irish friendly society.

The INF began in 1877 as a breakaway from the Ancient Order of Foresters after political disagreements. The INF grew rapidly and soon became the largest friendly society in Ireland. It supported Irish nationalism and its constitution called for "government for Ireland by the Irish people in accordance with Irish ideas and Irish aspirations".

By 1914 the order had spread worldwide and had a quarter of a million members in over 1,000 branches. The influx of Irish labour into Scotland in the 19th century saw the movement gain a foothold, first in the west and later as far as the east coast.

With the establishment of the Irish Free State and the gradual expansion of the social welfare system, the INF went into decline. Some branches, particularly in Northern Ireland, continue to exist."
"Wikipedia"

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#5 Post by herecomestheCONGO » Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:05 pm

I`ll try and clear up some questions concerning the duties of these different titles...The Chief Ranger bascally is the chairman at meetings...The Woodward is the guy who goes around checking on the welfare of members and carries their benefits...finally The Beadle is basically the doorman at Forester meetings, checking who enters and who leaves.

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#6 Post by bornandbred » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:00 pm

Thank you, Congo & Northbrook for the information - I was beginning to think this photo was too ancient to have any interest to the forum!

The "Woodward" had me puzzled, & The Beadle conjured up thoughts of Dickens' "Oliver Twist".

Do either of you know why the organization was called "The Irish National Foresters" in the first place?

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#7 Post by bandsman » Fri Jan 11, 2008 11:33 pm

bornandbred wrote:Do either of you know why the organization was called "The Irish National Foresters" in the first place?
northbrook wrote:"The Irish National Foresters (Coillteoirí Náisiúnta na hÉireann in Irish) is an Irish friendly society.
Hope this helps. 8)

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#8 Post by Brian » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:24 am

The Irish National Foresters Organisation is an off-shoot of the parent Order of Foresters which was set up in England by serfs in the days of the feudal landlords. Because they could not meet openly, they gathered in dense forest and gave names associated with forestry to their leaders. The self-help Order of Foresters gave the title of chief ranger and assistant chief ranger to the men at the top, and members of the executive of local branches were called Woodward, Beadle and other names associated with their secret meeting places. In later years a World Foresters Organisation was set up and spread like wildfire in the United states, Canada, Australia and Ireland. The rules of the I.N.F. were those of the parent body. It is non-sectarian, non-political and there is no class distinction. It is a mutual aid society, established to help members in distress and the relatives of members who have died.

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#9 Post by bornandbred » Sat Jan 12, 2008 5:09 pm

Brian, you're amazing! That's just what I was looking for. I knew they were set up as a benevolent society, but had no idea their roots went so far back!

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#10 Post by Padraigin » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:08 pm

herecomestheCONGO wrote:Number 3 middle row looks like a Caulfield..Thomas maybe..the man next to him looks like James(the general) Mc Caughey, with his hands on his brother Pats` shoulders..I have just viewed this picture, so I will return with more solid info soon.

I think my Mum helped out with these names, and they should be in the Hall, I typed them up.
That any help?

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#11 Post by bornandbred » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:40 pm

Yes, Padraigin- if you could fill in the blanks in my original post that would be great!

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#12 Post by Padraigin » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:27 pm

bornandbred wrote:Yes, Padraigin- if you could fill in the blanks in my original post that would be great!
Ok that picture should be downstairs, I'll ask MUM

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Re: Warrenpoint Forsters Heart of Erin Branch

#13 Post by bornandbred » Sat Jan 26, 2008 10:40 pm

[quote="mcelaura"]Seamus Murphy's (Homer)mother, Allie, was Edgar to her own name and Dickie McGuigan's mother was her sister, also Edgar. Their family home had been round the front shore. If the Edgar in this picture is their relation, either of these branches of the family will be able to verify this.[/quote]

mcelaura, I've verified that Richard Edgar is indeed Homer's grandfather, & would assume Jimmy was his uncle.

Padraigin, have you asked your mother to fill in the gaps in the names? I haven't visited this topic for a while, & have been going over my posts since the crash. So if you posted names I've missed them.

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#14 Post by dukestreet » Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:03 am

Brendan Tohill's (Rossmara Park) mother was Sally Edgar, by all accounts a gifted pianist, the late Demot O'Brien (Welcome Cafe Dock St confirmed this).
Sally Edgar use to play the piano in Lester Jackson's Garden Cinema. I think this was situated where Jack Hogg's Auction Room's in Queen Street, but I would need clarification.

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#15 Post by northbrook » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:43 pm

I remember the night it burned, and been taking round the next morning to see the smouldering remains, as you say "The Garden Cinema" was where Jack Hogg had his auction rooms. That`s where I saw my first pictures,Billy the Kid ,and Rin Tin Tin ( there`s plenty of scope here for another topic). Mick McGoldrick was the Tommy Gallagher of the day,(if you know what I mean).It burned down as far as I can remember on a Saturday night and the last movie was supposed to be "Gone with the Wind",but maybe that was the local wags having the last laugh. Other people who worked there (I`m been told over my shoulder)were Roseanna Bradley/Mackin Newry St. ticket office ,Hanna Grant`s mother Summerhill,I have been told she also played piano,particularly for the silent films.

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#16 Post by Padraigin » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:20 pm

Hi MCelaura
Sorry on two counts: for taking so long, and for not coming up with any more names, we have the same names only, and I took so long as we have been delving into old photos for our newly discovered THANKS TO THE FORUM cousin in England. You have contributed to this too so thank you again, and a BIG THANK YOU to Brian, having a ball here! :-):-)

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#17 Post by bornandbred » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:36 pm

Aw Padraigin, & I was looking forward to putting the names on the back of my picture! Never mind, maybe the Foresters will come up trumps sooner or later! I've had this photo for several years now, so I can wait a while longer. Thanks for trying anyway, & to your mum as well!

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#18 Post by California Dream'in » Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:50 am

HCTC, did you ever find out if this is our Great-Granda James McCaughey in this photo ?

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#19 Post by bornandbred » Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:11 pm

California Dream'in wrote:HCTC, did you ever find out if this is our Great-Granda James McCaughey in this photo ?
Well done for asking the question, california! If us oldies on the forum can't put names to the remaining men, maybe you youngsters can do a bit of digging on our behalf? Obviously I knew the names available before posting the pic, but even without the names I picked the two men related to us, from facial resemblance to living family members. So it would be nice if the photo could be shown to older relatives of forum members, especially those who don't use a computer. Not all of us are lucky enough to have photos of great-grandparents either, maybe an older relative does? Do a bit of sleuthing!

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#20 Post by herecomestheCONGO » Thu Mar 06, 2008 4:49 pm

Yes thats James McCaughey sitting 4th from the left..known as `The General`..He originally came from Irish Street, Dungannon and was a coach-builder by trade...He came to Warrenpoint to work at the coach-builders yard in Charlotte Street..(now Conways garage).

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#21 Post by fourthroad » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:30 pm

A PHOTO OF AN OLD COMMITTEE.



Image

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#22 Post by dukestreet » Thu Mar 13, 2008 11:41 am

Back row, L-r: Paddy (The Child) O'Hagan (Post Office St.); Lawrence (?) Rooney (Moygannon); Jimmy Berry (Ashgrove Terrace); Dessie Heatley (Duke Street).

Front row, L-r; Charlie McGreevey ( Shoemender, Clontifleece); Hughie Mackin (Charlotte St.); John Thomas Caulfield (Thomas St.); Hughie 'Turk' White (Mary St.); Bob 'Dodds' Waters (Forth Avenue).

I have seen this photo years ago, a copy was in my Aunt's house in Duke St.
Dermot O'Brien also had a copy, and told me the names. To the best of my ability to remember, I think those are the correct names.
Does any one else have an opinion, I would like know if they are correct or not?
I was told that it was taken about 1956/57, would that be correct? :)] :rotfl: zz:zz

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#23 Post by fourthroad » Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:36 pm

Hello Dukestreet, yes think you are right with the names, On seeing your uncle Dessie my mind went back to when he worked in Gilbert Ash, i called into the yard everyday along with Peter Kennan on our way home from school to see him, everyday brought a new laugh.

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#24 Post by Marion » Thu Mar 13, 2008 1:32 pm

bornandbred wrote:Brian, you're amazing! That's just what I was looking for. I knew they were set up as a benevolent society, but had no idea their roots went so far back!
I wondered also about the origins as we met several people whilst living in England who rented / bought properties that were owned by the Foresters and I couldn't understand what the Foresters were doing with properties in Surrey...I guess at one time they would have been available to INF members only?

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#25 Post by g ohara » Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:58 pm

fourthroad wrote:A PHOTO OF AN OLD COMMITTEE.



Image
thats a great photo ive saw it before and that is John Thomas Caulfield also i am in possession of the sash that he is wearing

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#26 Post by dukestreet » Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:44 pm

Regarding the the subject of sashes, if only they could talk, they could tell many a tale.
In the picture above, my Uncle Dessie was wearing a sash gave to him by by Mrs. Gertie Shields, which belonged to her late father Peter Sheeky.
My uncle received the sash on the morning Mr. Sheeky died in 1954 (?). Apparently years before, Peter Sheeky bequeathed his sash to my uncle Dessie, who wore it proudly for many years.
When my uncle died in 1974, my late father insisted that the sash be returned to a member of the Shields family, as none of us were members of The INF.
Nowadays the possesser of the INF sash is Martin Shields, a member of Newry Forrestors, and a grandson of Peter Sheeky's.
Martin Shields proudly wears 'the sash his grandfather wore,' at INF parades. :cheers:

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#27 Post by Adie » Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:38 pm

Nice one Dickey!!

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#28 Post by townclerk » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:34 pm

St. Peter's Hall, Warrenpoint. 16th March 1902

Back row: 1 & 2 unknown; 3-Peter Grant; 4 unknown; 5-Thomas McGivern; 6-Harry Smith 7-Hugh Carr

Back row: (4 unknown) has the look of a McKernan about him.

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#29 Post by xpaddy » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:17 pm

Must have missed this first time around.
Interesting reading.
The Foresters must have been a
"Gentlemen Only Club" when it
started, because I had never been
in there.
If they had only "Kay Lee" (can't
spell the word), dancing in it, that
would explain why.

After all Elvis was just coming around
then.

I know now it is mixed.

Dukestreet I remember very well when
Mr. Sheehy died.
That was a nice story about the Sash.

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Re: Warrenpoint Foresters "Heart of Erin" branch

#30 Post by forest wall » Mon Dec 21, 2015 10:51 pm

Interesting, Dukestreet, that you quote "Lawrence Rooney". To me it looks more like his brother Joe, (both were my uncles, as was Charlie McGreevy, married to their sister Margaret(Maggie). I could be wrong, though!

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