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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:47 pm 
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Location: Warrenpoint
ACCIDENT OVER WARRENPOINT July 1944

R.A.F. MEN KILLED IN DEMONSTRATION FLIGHT

A number of R.A.F. men were killed at Warrenpoint on Saturday afternoon last as a result of a collision in mid-air, of two planes which were taking part in a display given by the Lurgan Civil Defence Services in the Square.
The accident occurred about midway between the Square, where a large number of people were gathered, and the Municipal Baths, and after the collision one of the planes crashed into the sea, whilst the other, after striking the roof of the Town Hall, finished up at the rear of Mr. Frank Hourican’s premises in Duke Street (Leddy's Paint Shop).
The bodies of the crew were found in Mr. Hourican’s yard, where the cockpit of the machine crashed, apparently dead on arrival.
The bodies of the crew of the plane which crashed in the sea were brought to shore by Sergeant Denis Donoghue, R.U.C., and Mr. Ernest McKibben, architect, Warrenpoint, and by Constable H. Rodgers, R.U.C. Warrenpoint, and were later conveyed to the Morgue in Charlotte St., Warrenpoint, and subsequently to Daisy Hill Hospital, Newry.
The Lough was littered with wreckage and log books, pieces of instruments, diaries etc., fell into gardens and yards in Church St. and Summerhill.
Indeed all along the route the two machines travelled, pieces of the damaged planes and personal possessions of the occupants were picked up and brought to the Police Barracks, including a prayer-book presented to one of the men by a Bishop, which was found by Mr. Patrick Harrison, Best’s Row. One of the dead men had kept a day to day diary written up until Friday, showing that he had attended Holy Communion that morning, and was about to go on leave, and was looking forward to seeing his wife and new baby, for whom he had a suit of baby clothes in an attaché case.
Another of the dead airmen had with him a telegram, received the previous day wishing him a happy twenty first birthday.

EYE WITNEES ACCOUNT

According to Mr. J. H. Barkley, 117 Mount Merrion Park, Belfast, a warden of Belfast Civil Defence Service, and who had been in Warrenpoint on holidays, one of the ill-fated planes had climbed above the roof-tops in Church St., after having pulled out of a dive over The Square, and directly in the path of the ascending plane was the second machine, which was coming in from the lough. One seemed to dive suddenly under the other and became entangled with the other. There was an explosion and a blinding flash, and fragments of the wreckage were scattered over an extensive area.
SOUTH DOWN M.P.’s TELEGRAM

The following telegram, signed by Mr. James Brown,M.P. for South Down, and Mr. Edward Caulfield, Chairman of Warrenpoint Urban District Council, was dispatched to the Air Ministry, London, on Saturday evening. “The people of Warrenpoint are stunned by today’s disaster, and ask you to convey their deepest sympathy to the bereaved.”
Sympathetic references to the tragedy were made in all churches of Warrenpoint on Sunday.
On Tuesday morning Mass was offered for the deceased airmen by Ven. Archdeacon McAlister, Adm.


LURGAN COUNCIL’S SYMPATHY

At Lurgan Urban Council on Monday evening, Mr. F.A. Monroe, J.P. chairman, referred to the tragedy at Warrenpoint on Saturday when members of the R.A.F. lost their lives in an air crash during Civil Defence exercises staged by Lurgan units. They thought that the Air Ministry should be requested to convey the Council’s sympathy to the relatives.
This action was unanimously approved.


Brian thanks again, your instructions are very easy to follow. As I said I copied this from the Frontier Sentinel, as the print was very poor and virtually unreadable, the only amendment I made was to inform people who did not know where Frank Hourican's pub was in Duke St.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:48 pm 
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My father often talks about this air crash, both Dan McKevitt and himself were in the square when this happened. From what i know one of one of the men killed well his grandson came to warrenpoint last year to meet people who saw the crash , (my father one of them who is still living.)


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 3:26 pm 
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My grandfather also remembered the accident, and told us that they found parts of the aircraft in our own and McGuffins back gardens, and took them down to the police station. However, there was one small bit that I remember being on display on McGuffins mantelpiece in the back kitchen for years, I imagine it was either thrown out or shipped over to England when Mrs McGuffin moved over to her daughters after her husband died.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 3:56 am 
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Sergeant Donoghue was the father of the famous writer of the same name who wrote "Warrenpoint" about 15 years ago.

The Practice of Reading
DENIS DONOGHUE



During those years I was a student at University College, Dublin, and at the Royal Irish Academy of Music, having recently arrived from Warrenpoint, a small town in Northern Ireland where my father was the local police sergeant. For financial and other reasons, we were not a bookish family. I had access to a few shelves of books in the home of my local elementary teacher, Sean Crawford, but the range of reading matter was small.

http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/d/do ... ading.html

As one can see, Jackie was at work as usual.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:34 am 
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Brian wrote:
My grandfather also remembered the accident, and told us that they found parts of the aircraft in our own and McGuffins back gardens, and took them down to the police station. However, there was one small bit that I remember being on display on McGuffins mantelpiece in the back kitchen for years, I imagine it was either thrown out or shipped over to England when Mrs McGuffin moved over to her daughters after her husband died.


My mother was never one to talk about unpleasant memories, but my wife (who will talk about anything at all, whether anybody's listening or not) got her to fill in something called a "grandparent book" (a template
of standard questions...

and under "memories" .. the first thing

"during the war I remember seeing two aircraft collide over the Lough"

which must be the same event, although up to now I thought it referred to something around Cranfield aerodrome (used by the US?)

Never mentioned it that I remember


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:47 pm 
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Does anyone know which type of aircraft they where??


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:50 am 
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Apparently some one else asked that question and got no answer so far...

http://www.rafweb.org/guestlog_2004.htm

you will have to look for "Warrenpoint"


And as a follow up ...

This was some kind of Civil Defence event. July 1944, a month after D-day. And planes are flying over the 'Point. Fuel to spare apparently.

What was supposed to be the point? (yes, The 'Point) but seriously, why?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 12:19 pm 
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It was a display for/by the home guard and civil defence

Quote:
"Join the Home Guard or Civil Defence
The Hun will win if you sit on the fence"


The actual planes... well, I was told many years ago, and despite racking my brains and trying to get the cogs moving, so far i have not recalled them. they were not Spitfires, nor hurricanes but I think they were some sort of training aircraft, time for a bit more research :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:26 pm 
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I have had a look on different sites, and I can find no mention of the air crash over the lough, every other air crash in Ireland in July 1944, so people the hunt is on ............... first to find out gets a prize. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:26 pm 
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It did, after I edited it :lol: you should have an "edit" button that you can use to re-edit your post if you make a mistake?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 5:11 am 
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DEE wrote:
I have had a look on different sites, and I can find no mention of the air crash over the lough, every other air crash in Ireland in July 1944, so people the hunt is on ............... first to find out gets a prize. :lol:


This is not easy. among other useless information i now know that the US navy held an exercise last month called "Frontier Sentinel", presumably they have some Admiral with Newry roots :lol:

And apparently a "father of confederation" was born in carlingford. Anyone know his name?

It would make sense that they would have been training aircraft.. and the newspaper says that the crews were killed, not just the pilots. But it would have been censored, presumably?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:19 am 
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That would be this chap

Thomas D'Arcy McGee


Quote:
Thomas D'Arcy McGee (Canada) was born in Carlingford, Ireland, April 13, 1825. Due to hard life he arrived in America in 1842 and became a journalist. He returned to Ireland but due to connections with rebellion he returned to New York and later arrived in Montreal, Canada. He became a conservative and was against the Irish Fenian extremists. He was a very strong supporter of a united British America and was rewarded with a place on the Dominion's first cabinet but he resigned because of MacDonald's difficulty of meeting regional, ethnic and religious demands. He was ready for a new position but his life was cut short by a Fenian, April 7, 1868. the first political murder in Canadian history



Good selection of articles here:

http://www.collectionscanada.ca/confede ... 370-e.html


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:48 pm 
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I dont think it would have been sensored as I can find all RAF air crashes.in ireland in 1944 but not carlingford lough


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:10 pm 
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Your to quick for me mate what i did find out was that a lass called
catherine mccausland was also looking into it about 3 years ago a posted a request on a raf achive site, if anyone knows her it could be worth asking if she ever got a reply to her request??? but im still looking :?


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 12:07 am 
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I am ahead of you there as well :wink: I emailed the chap that runs that site the other day, and mentioned this thread, so hopefully he might be able to help. At some point my brain will kick in and remember the plane types, as I was definitely told what they were.... old age eh.. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 5:59 pm 
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I saying nothing mate, but your doing a grand job, I cant think of any where esle to look so i think i will have to wait and see if you get a reply


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:21 am 
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Brian wrote:
That would be this chap

Thomas D'Arcy McGee


Quote:
Thomas D'Arcy McGee (Canada) was born in Carlingford, Ireland, April 13, 1825. Due to hard life he arrived in America in 1842 and became a journalist. He returned to Ireland but due to connections with rebellion he returned to New York and later arrived in Montreal, Canada. He became a conservative and was against the Irish Fenian extremists. He was a very strong supporter of a united British America and was rewarded with a place on the Dominion's first cabinet but he resigned because of MacDonald's difficulty of meeting regional, ethnic and religious demands. He was ready for a new position but his life was cut short by a Fenian, April 7, 1868. the first political murder in Canadian history



Good selection of articles here:

http://www.collectionscanada.ca/confede ... 370-e.html



Thats the man all right, but i believe I heard somewhere that he moved to Wicklow at an early age and was a journalist in Ireland before heading West. ( Hard Life? )

And I beleve also that so far he's the only prominent Canadian politician to have been assassinated. Some of the current ones shpould be watching their backs !! :lol:



And Brian, could you change the purple background on quotes to a lighter colour. Cant read them on my Datatrain Dc521P monitor. and if you know of an Xp driver for the thing please let me know.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2007 11:29 am 
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That monitor is a 14" yes? and rather old, to be honest as the only drivers I can find are for win98 and 95

you would be doing your eyesight a favour by ditching it and getting a new TFT one. (most of the visitors here use at least 17" monitors) I know when I got rid of my old monitor, I had to turn the brightness down on this new one as it nearly blinded me :) It was only then I realised how dull the thing was.

to change the colours of the quotes is a bit fiddly, although it is possible. In the meantime, if you go to your profile, and scroll down you will see the "board style" currently set to "Abandon" if you change that to "Subsilver" it will put the board back to the default settings (for you) and make it a bit easier to read.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:52 am 
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Brian wrote:
That monitor is a 14" yes? and rather old, to be honest as the only drivers I can find are for win98 and 95

you would be doing your eyesight a favour by ditching it and getting a new TFT one. (most of the visitors here use at least 17" monitors) I know when I got rid of my old monitor, I had to turn the brightness down on this new one as it nearly blinded me :) It was only then I realised how dull the thing was.

to change the colours of the quotes is a bit fiddly, although it is possible. In the meantime, if you go to your profile, and scroll down you will see the "board style" currently set to "Abandon" if you change that to "Subsilver" it will put the board back to the default settings (for you) and make it a bit easier to read.



Subsilver is fine, should have done some lateral thinkin' myself.

Yes the Datatrain is old and 14", but it still works fine and has outlasted some Samsung, Hp & Compaqs, despite being on 12 hours a day for at least six years, ( in a business) The driver bit was supposed to be a joke... Win ME thinks its a "Dell Super VGA colour, " It works.

But i have a couple of even older monitors that work OK, but that Win Xp won't recognise. They work in Safe Mode, but not as pnp devices in normal mode, and it won't let me redefine them as "generic SVGA"

Anyway back to the thread..


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:19 pm 
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While official and informal reports of the air crash over Warrenpoint in
July '44 state on the site that the planes were on a civil defence
exercise, no-one has specified how they came to be here on this mission.
It was an aeronautical display instigated by the local ARP - Air Raid
Precaution. My father was one of the members, but I am aware that Mr.
Keohagan from Charlotte Street was one of the leading lights in that
department of defence.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:08 pm 
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mcelaura, if you are referring to Mr William (Willie) Keohane of Charlotte St, you are correct, he was a very active member of the ARP. Willie was a native of west Cork.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:59 am 
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mcelaura wrote:
leading lights in ARP.
(more or less)

:?: :?: :?:


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 11:51 am 
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Yes, BornandBred, thats the man I meant only I didn't know how it was
spelt.

And Nkrumah, glad to have introduced something that you feel worthy of commenting on, but I sense an element of innuendo. I, and possibly others, would be interested in your opinion of the man's involvement in the service. If there was something untoward or alleged we would like to know, even if it was political because tip toeing round something, we never get the real picture. We can't change history. I have posted things here where I was afraid to check up on the reaction , ready to be chased at any time!!!!

An example of the things I mean, Sam Tate got his hoses cut when he was on defence duty, ( on numerous ocassions!!). He was convinced that it was Maurice Hanna who was sabotaging the operations. Naturally, he never caught the person or persons responsible, and was quite open about his convictions regarding the perpetrator, -to his face!!! Whether Maurice did it or not was ever a matter for the man above. We can have suspicions but we will never know. But it is good in some way to know as much as we can ever know, isn't it? At least we are getting a picture of things as they really were, not a cosmetic job managed not to offend anyone.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:39 pm 
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I assume that was a dig at the ARP dads army style?


leading lights


"put that light out"

:lol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Put_That_Light_Out!


oh, and as for tip-toeing around things, not here please. as a historical site, if it needs to be said or included by all means do so. (example the Crown) I do not censor things here. (unless somebody is trying to sell Viagra or something)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:19 am 
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mcelaura wrote:
And Nkrumah, glad to have introduced something that you feel worthy of commenting on, but I sense an element of innuendo. .


No innuendo at all. Brian is spot on, that I meant lights as in "not blackout." ARP checked the blackout was good?

I'm only 56, so I know nothing about the 'Point during WW2. I remember my da putting up the old blackout blinds in the kitchen in the 50's to develop films.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:43 am 
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Sorry, Nkrumah, but a pity. I thought I was unearthing a bit of town
folklore that I hadn't already heard!!

I don't know exactly what the ARP did. Enforcing the blackout was one of
their duties, I know, but they had a lot of tackle that they stored in the air
raid shelter in the Square. (along the Dock Wall) This included stirrup
pumps, hoses, buckets, ladders etc. but the most unusual objects were
round orange balls, about the size of a small orange, with a fuse in them.
The theory was that if the Germans dropped incendary devices on our
homes and they went on fire, the fuses on these orange balls were to be
lit and the balls lobbed into the burning houses. They were known as fire
blasters and the idea was that they would create a fast draught and blow
the fire out. I don't know if they were ever put to the test in the real
sense!! They did blow up alright 'cause big lads of the times broke in and
had a great time exploding the ones that they took.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:15 am 
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Here is great site for ARP info including equipment, uniforms etc.
http://www.nbcd.org.uk/arp/index.asp


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 12:37 pm 
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We not only had the ARP, we also had the Home Guard (of which my Grandfather was a member see picture below of them on parade in Newry) does anybody know anybody else in that picture? it has been on the website for a while.

Image


So I suppose we were indeed just like any other town, except as i have mentioned before, because of the docks we were a "legitimate target" and one can only wonder what might have happened if the RAF had not defeated the Luftwaffe.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:21 pm 
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I dont recognize the buildings. Is it Warrenpoint?? 8)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 6:43 pm 
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ahem

Quote:
on parade in Newry


:wink:


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